Ok, here goes...got lots of questions! These are all questions that aren't answered or aren't covered properly in Musk care sheets, I have read the ones that have been recommended on here plus googled lots more! As usual there is lots of differening information, hence why I'm asking you as you have lots of personal experience
If anyone else knows the answers please feel free to chip in

Eating issues:

1. Size difference.... Betty & Borris are the same age (according to previous owners (gonna be called P/O from here on in!) they are 1yr old) yet Betty is approx 4" & Borris approx 2.5"..... why would this be? The P/O said that they used to feed them seperate and they both ate the same? Is this plausable?

2. Assuming Betty is the size she is cos of overfeeding, would it have caused any long term damage? Is there anything I need to be doing to help her?

3. They are currently fed zoo med natural aquatic turtle food - is this any good? What would you recommend? I have also been given zoo med frozen bloodworms... how often and how much should be fed?

4. On all the care sheets - yes I have read them all! - it says that once they reach 6mths you should feed every other day.... the P/O were feeding them everyday! Should I do it every other day?

5. How much should I feed? The P/O said to feed them the size of their heads in pellets (everyday) and to give them the bloodworms as a treat - one cube each - every couple of days.... is this as well as pellets or instead of? Is that the right amount of pellets to feed?

6. I've found that they tend to eat better once the UV light has been turned off - so they only have the room light - is this ok to feed them like this?

7. Betty's just poo'd - you can clearly see she ate the cube of bloodworms the day before y'day!!!! Is this normal?

HUSBANDRY:

8. They have two UV tubes - not sure off hand what % or type will check later... is two ok? What type do you recommend?

9. They don't currently have a basking light for heat - some caresheets say you should, others say it doesn't matter! Whats right??? What should I use? If anything! Apparently according to P/O Betty sometimes comes up onto the floating dock but they have never seen Borris on there. As of yet, I haven't seen either up there (had them since Sunday)

10. The water is 8" deep - although I have banked the sand in some places so its 6" deep... is this ok?

11. the P/O used aquatic sand as substrate as they said gravel was too messey and they had trouble keeping tank clean.... is the sand ok? Anything else you'd recommend?

12. As well as the dock, they have a couple of other things in there that they can hide/climb. When I come back of holiday I should hopefully be driving so will go to a reptile shop and get some other bits & pieces... is there anything you'd recommend?

13. Should I get live or plastic plants?

14. Whats the best way of keeping the tank clean - I have an external filter (details below), is it worth getting one of them gravel cleaner hoover thingy-be-gigs??? Although the water is lovely & clear there are 'bits' on the sand - how do I get them up??? When you try to grab them they 'move' with the water!!!!!

GENERAL INFORMATION

I will attach a photo later of my set up but my camera is currently on charge!!!!

I have a Ehiem Ecco external filter (god they are huge!!!!) and after a couple of teething problems I have got it up and running! Is this ok? Should the filter be on same level as tank or below the tank level? Been told different things!

The heater is set on 27 degrees - some caresheets say 26, some 27 so I went for the middle!!! Is this ok!

How long should I keep UV lights on for - again can't find this mentioned anywhere - P/O put them on at 7am and turned them off about 9pm....

All care sheets refer to them as hatchlings or under 6mths or as adults! What are mine??? What info should I be following - Hatchling care or Adult care????

Right, I know I've asked LOADS of questions and I'm sorry, but just wanna get this right!!! Please, please can you try and help me

Thank you soooooooooooooooo much!

Feeding

I have seen it written several times that male musks grow far slower than females.

It's very hard to overfeed a growing carnivourous turtle I've found. They are far better at protein utilisation and this is put towards growth.

The zoo med stuff is fine. There are 3 types; a hatchling, a growth and an adult pellet. Adult is lower protein, the other two are for younger turtles. I personally use reptomin for all my turtles

Frozen bloodworm is nutritionally useless. I hardly use it except as a treat or to encourage a finicky eater.  I use crayfish tails and chilian mussels from sainsburys as a staple frozen food. Also see "turtle pudding" thread at the top of this page.

Feeding every two days over six months is the norm. I just feed them half the portion size daily, a portion being enough volume of food to fill the size of the turtles head. I feed one day pellets, one day frozen shellfish, turtle pudding or live food. You can offer pond plants or romaine lettuce freely, some musks mY eat them.

Musks are crepulusal turtles, mainly active at dusk or dawn. This is when they would be out hunting for food so it makes sense to feed them when the main lights are off.

Most turtles will produce a solid fecal sac of well digested food so no the bloodworms not normal if its coming through undigested. Could be the diet hasn't been great or if the water they were kept in was not dechlorinated (straight out of the tap) over time the chlorine destroys the turtles gut flora.

I'll have to come back to this.

Thats brilliant Dave, I am so sorry, I know theres a lot of questions

Ok to address what you've written:

The fecal bit.... on sunday I did put water direct from the tap cos the P/O told me there was stuff in the bag to treat the water....well there was... but it was empty! I did pop to local shop yesterday and got some of the tetra goldfish aquasafe and did a water change (about 1/3 adding it to the fresh water) Again I will get some decent stuff when I get back of holiday.

You said; "I feed one day pellets, one day frozen shellfish, turtle pudding or live food" is that for eg, monday pellets, tuesday frozen shellfish or pudding or live, OR monday ONE of the above, tuesday nothing, wednesday ONE of the above etc?

I've heard Reptomin is the best and will swap to this asap.

So I can make your turtle cake for them....excellent!!! God I am gonna be busy when I get back of my hols!!!!!

OOOPS! SORRY! Just re-read your post... ignore the feeding schedule bit in my reply.... you feed them daily HALF the amount they would normally have if fed every other day! Get it now!!!!

Some people say they don't need UV light but theres more to it then just the vitamin D3 side. As yiu've seen they react to light levels and I feel its right to try to create day light for any animal indoors. I use reptisun 5.0 or 10.0 tubes for all my aquatic turtkes. Tge get a lot of vitamin D3 in their diet both in pellets and in animal food. Which tube depends on where you can mount it. High up in a fish tank I'd go for a 10% UVB tube.

These turtles are shy baskers, they only feel safe out of the water if they can quickly drop into it. A log makes an ideal basking platform, they can drop off into the water easily. I use a halogen spot bulb with all my turtles. You can get the E27 screw in one thatll fit a reptile lamp holder from DIY places. Make sure its ultra secure, if it drops in the water it will electrocute the turtles. Always use a surge protector too.
Just because you dont see them bask, doesn't mean they're not basking.  

Personally I keep my water for mud turtles about 4 inches max. I dont see any point in going deeper. More water helps to keep it cleaner longer but with a big filter and water changes, not a problem. It just wastes the turtles energy having to paddle at the surface to breath all the time. They like to be at rest with their nostrils breaking the surface. Put in some platforms and they will use them. I hate seeing baby musks in shops struggling in a foot of water.

I use either large river pebbles, slate pieces of whole kitchen fllor solid slate tiles as a substrate. Sand is a pain, gravek can be swallowed and cause impaction.

As above try and create shallow ares under the water. You can build a slate pile, glueing the slates with aquarium sealant to make a structure with ledges and caves. Pieces of bogwood that break the surface, giving them stuff to explore.

Live plants all the way. They help with water quality. Anacharis, water lettuce, water hyacinth, duckweed. All good.


Its the sand making the floor appear dirty. Turtles stir up the bottom and detritus should get sucked into the filter. You  can syphon it out when doing water changes (I do 50% water change every two weeks).

Filter size depends on the size of the tank and how much water it has. I look for a filter with a flow rate at least 3 times the volume of water. So the volume of the tank is filtered 3 times an hour. (100 litre tank, 300 litre per hour filter).

I do the lights on a 12 hour day/night cycle.

Yours are sub adult, treat as per adults.


One other thing to mention. Cuttlefish. Turtles can eat a lot of it. Always have some available, just floating in the water is fine.

Also musks are snail eaters. If you can get a supply of captive bred pond snails (try ebay) get some . They breed like mad. I dont use wild caught snails, theres a link with them and a liver fluke that can affe t turtles.

One last thing, often overlooked. Get a water testing kit. Tetra do an all in one kit doing nitrite, nitrates, Ph etc of the water. Keep within the safe levels of the kit and do a water change if anything gets too high.

I missed a couple of things. I keep my muds unheated waterwise the temp is usually 22-24C in my turtle room. My personal feeling is that most turtle wont bask if the water temperature is close to their preferred body temperature. The only tirtles I heat the water for is my Texas Maps and then its only to ensure 24C. They like it hot with basking spots approaching 38-40 C.

Musks are found all the way down america from cold to hot climates, dropping to 23-24c is unlikely to trouble them.

Tetra water dechlorinater is the one I use, its fine for turtles.

there aren't any specific books on musks that I know of, a lot of good books are out of print but try and find

Keeping and breeding Freshwater turtles by Russ Gurley

And you can download for free
Captive Care of North American Water Turtles by Richard Lunsford
here:

http://www.lulu.com/product/download/ca ... es/1646680

Then theres the big daddy of turtle books, Turtles of the United States and Canada by Carl H. Ernst, Jeffrey E. Lovich. The second edition (black cover) has a huge chapter on every North american species. Not a care guide but full of brilliant information. Well worth the money (about £40).

Brilliant Dave that is a really helpful response to all my questions... it will not only help me but anyone else that has or is getting Musk turtles.

As soon as I get back I will swap the sand for pebbles and/or slate probably a mix of the two? I will also drop the water level down a bit and revamp the decor, including adding some live plants...can't wait! Also once I've got a basking lamp - there is a halogen clip on lamp & bulb in the bag but there is 'black' scorch like marks on the holder so don't think I'll risk it!!! I'll get a new one I think - I'll drop the water temp a bit.

Thank you so much..... oh and don't think you can go disapearing yet.... I'm bound to think of more questions